ADMIRAL_LORD_WEST ANNA_SJOBLOM DR_MARTHA_NEWSON INTERVIEWER JEANNETTE_WINTERSON JJ_CHALMERS NADIFA_MOHAMED SUZANNAH_LPSCOMB JJ CHALMERS It�s these small decisions, these little butterfly effect moments that change the outcome. JJ CHALMERS When you�re in the military this is what we talk about triaging. This is a case of thinking how many people can we save at this point. There�s only room for 800 people in the lifeboats that remain, so that�s best case scenario. But in crisis situations you�re not getting the best case scenario within the panic, the confusion. NADIFA MOHAMED Can you imagine the chaos and the fear and the terror of finding water in your cabin and you�re in the bowels of the ship.It makes me panic just thinking about it. PROF. SUZANNAH LPSCOMB The story of the Titanic is the human condition spread out, pinned on a board for us to examine. JEANNETTE WINTERSON It�s a split second decision, what would you do, what would I do? JEANNETTE WINTERSON So, Lightoller knows now things are getting more serious. He thought this thing could not go down and now he knows it could sink. This is a terrible shock for him. Captain Smith is at fault here, he has not informed his senior officers of what he has known for some time. It�s very hard to know why Captain Smith did not give out the information to his most trusted command. Maybe it�s important to keep this away to stop them panicking and to keep control. JEANNETTE WINTERSON There are just ten lifeboats left on the ship along with four collapsable life rafts. There�s 2000 souls and more on board and only around 700 places. There�s no rescue ship coming any time soon so if you don�t get in you�re gonna die. Lightoller is going to continue doing exactly what he�s done before but with even more fervor and rigidity enforcing the plan. It�s the only thing he can do. At this stage, Violet is handed a baby that has been sort of separated from their family or whoever was caring for them at that point. It�s hard to fathom that. That panic beginning to spread, it�s making their circumstances worse, it�s making everybody�s chance of survival worse but it�s such a natural reaction. DR MARTHA NEWSON So, time is ticking down, the water�s rising, they�re sandwiched in-between the sea and the locked gate. They�re having to make life or death decisions in moments with very little information. DR MARTHA NEWSON Anna is interesting, because she�s come from a different environment, she�s come from Finland where the social strata isn�t quite as defined as it is in England at the time, perhaps she has a little bit more leeway to not rely on following the authority figures� orders. DR MARTHA NEWSON There�s some evidence that growing up in adverse situations actually gives you a kind of cognitive toolkit to be able to get through those situations. All kinds of skills where you�ve needed to survive and depend on yourself, and that translates really quite well to an emergency scenario. But third class passengers have survived so many different challenges already. JJ CHALMERS The crying of children and the screaming of a woman, you know, these are terrifying sounds that we are programmed to have a sort of visceral reaction to. I remember from living through my trauma, my wounding in Afghanistan, sounds stay with you far more than sights. That is a powerful thing for the senses to take on board and for ultimately you to then to have to live with. INTERVIEWER Did you think it was in a very serious condition? I JJ CHALMERS Fred is in the lifeboat because you know, he�s one of those strong enough to be able to row it, and at this stage the crew is now starting to really fill the lifeboats. JJ CHALMERS There is no real order. People are sitting on top of one another, and you know, and you�re sort of being crushed underneath this mass of people. It�s suspended by davits off the side of the ship at this point. It�s about 18 meters above the water but every person that gets in adds that weight, adds that movement, adds that risk. And so, there has to be a point at which you say, �That�s enough.� INTERVIEWER And that the ship was sinking? JJ CHALMERS That means looking into the whites of people�s eyes and saying there�s no more space. JJ CHALMERS It�s a really tricky one because yes, crew should follow orders and the structure of discipline is how you can try and create some form of order in moments of chaos. There is a good reason why, you know, in circumstances we will not question orders. Having said that, it�s all well and good one of your superiors giving you an order but they�re not seeing the circumstances that you are witnessing. JJ CHALMERS Every man for himself now. In the conflicts I trained for it�s unimaginable that we would ever find ourselves in a circumstance where it was every man for themselves. All of the order has been lost, and actually trying to maintain that order whether it�s pointing a gun at a crowd or screaming at the top of your voice, all you�re doing in that circumstance is wasting energy. JJ CHALMERS The last of the hard hulled lifeboats have been dispatched but there is still two collapsable lifeboats left on the boat deck. They�re a little bit more flimsy but they still are a lifeline. INTERVIEWER You were one of those as the Managing Director responsible for determining the number of lifeboats. INTERVIEWER When you got into the boat you thought that The Titanic was sinking? INTERVIEWER Did you know that there were hundreds of people on that ship. INTERVIEWER Who must go down with her. INTERVIEWER Has it occurred to you that as Managing Director, deciding the number of boats you owed your life to every other person on that ship? NADIFA MOHAMED Charlotte Collyer is just about holding herself together in her family unit, her husband, Harvey and her little daughter, Marjorie. JEANNETTE WINTERSON The egregious deferential veneer is not there anymore. The officers will pull apart women from their men and make them go into the boats whether they want to or not. This is new in the course of the night and it�s frightening. NADIFA MOHAMED There�s a really stark disadvantage facing third class passengers. From the beginning they are stuck in the bowels of the ship trying to get to where the lifeboats are. ANNA SJOBLOM is a teenager from Finland, she�s a Swedish speaker but a third of steerage passengers on the Titanic were from Nordic countries, there were so many people who did not speak English but they spoke Spanish, Arabic, Swedish. Swedish is the second most spoken language. NADIFA MOHAMED There are fourteen stewardesses in first class to help those passengers leave the ship. In third class there�s only one. There was no Tannoy system or announcement of what was going on, of what to do, they had to work it out themselves. NADIFA MOHAMED Eugene Daly is a 29 year old textile worker from County West Meath in Ireland. After years of saving he�s immigrating to America along with his cousin, Maggie, her friend, Bertha and his beloved Irish pipes. JEANNETTE WINTERSON The third class passengers don�t know what�s going on because they�re not being told, and there�s nothing worse than having an idea that something�s really wrong but not knowing exactly what it is. But above deck the first and second class passengers and the crew can all see there aren�t enough boats left and there are hundreds of them on deck. JEANNETTE WINTERSON Up until now some lifeboats have only been half filled. Now, there�s fear everywhere so they�re filling them up as quickly as they can. NADIFA MOHAMED The men and women in third class are separated, so for Eugene to find Maggie and Bertha he has to cross from one end of the ship to another. No one is guiding them, no one is saying �This is the best way to get around the flooding. They have to work it out for themselves. NADIFA MOHAMED There�s hundreds of third class passengers trying to navigate the warren of corridors, hallways, staircases and they�re trying to get to a part of the ship, the boat deck that they�ve never been allowed onto before. NADIFA MOHAMED Eugen, Maggie and Bertha must navigate up several decks to the boat deck. It�s now a very challenging situation and the feeling of a loss of control on the part of the crew is getting stronger and stronger. JEANNETTE WINTERSON There are guns on board The Titanic. Like the lifeboats, nobody expected to ever have to use them. JEANNETTE WINTERSON The fact of the matter is there are far more passengers than crew, British and American society at this time hierarchical and it�s rules based, people will do what they are told but not when their lives are at stake. This is what the officers fear. But you know, Chekhov said, �You can�t put a gun in the room and not use it. NADIFA MOHAMED Third class passengers naturally gravitated towards the aft well Deck which is the outdoor space they had use of, but it is still three decks below the boat deck where the lifeboats are NADIFA MOHAMED She doesn�t speak English, there�s no one experienced to advise her so she�s working this all out with so much against her. There�s a sea of passengers already gathered there, so Eugene and Anna are joining this throng of people. NADIFA MOHAMED The Titanic being an immigrant ship must conform to American and British immigration laws, and one of those laws is around quarantine, maintaining steerage class passengers in areas separate from the first and second class passengers to stop the spread of disease. Before the third class passengers have even boarded Titanic they�ve had to be subjected to medical examinations. They�re hemmed in by locked gates, and these same gates that were meant to prevent ill health are now blocking their access to the lifeboats. Eugene�s cousin, Maggie tries to go back to her cabin but that corridor is under five foot of water. There�s no chance she can make it and she turns back. ADMIRAL LORD WEST Actually drawing the gun shows that the ship�s officers realised that things were very, very desperate indeed, and of course we did not have enough lifeboats for everybody on board. There are ten lifeboats left on deck now, and 1960 people still to save. Titanic now was so low in the water that iconic areas like the grand staircase and some of the luxury steak rooms were flooding. There was no doubt at all that this was unstoppable, it was merely a question of time. JEANNETTE WINTERSON Jack Phillips has spent the last few hours trying to communicate with other wireless operators. Carpathia is sailing at full speed towards Titanic but she�s still two hours away. On the nearest ship, The Californian, nobody recognised or responded to the distress flares but Phillips stills believes that as long as he can get signals out he may be of some use. But now the electricity is starting to fail. Then he does get a message from his sister ship, Olympic. But she seems not to understand at all what is happening to Titanic and thinks Titanic must be limping along, sailing towards them. The frustration here is now clear because the messages are not getting through. For this young man in his mid-twenties, I think this is the place of utmost distress. Right now it�s clear on board ship that no rescue vessel is going to reach Titanic before she sinks. NADIFA MOHAMED The third class passengers are at most risk at this moment. There�s the language difficulties, there�s probably a bit of aggression I think that�s setting in, annoyance, frustration. DR MARTHA NEWSON At this moment we would expect the adrenaline to kick in. The body wants to survive and it gives us some sort of innate choices. You might fight your way to the front physically, people might freeze where they�re just stuck, they�re in terror, they don�t know what to do. We also see people who are turning inward and that would be turning to god as well, making the sign of the cross and so on. NADIFA MOHAMED They�re trying to keep order but by doing so in such a chaotic way they probably contribute to a greater loss of life than they realised. NADIFA MOHAMED Even though there�s no direct policy preventing third class passengers from accessing lifeboats, it�s clear from their testimony after the sinking that there was not a level playing field. The third class were left marginalized and endangered by crew�s actions. NADIFA MOHAMED They must have felt their confidence and trust in the crew and officers had gone. I think these were people who were not taking no for an answer. NADIFA MOHAMED They�re going to take fate into their own hands and they will get to those boats. In the same way that I think when Officer Lowe fired his gun he changed the terms. By breaking the gate, they changed the terms. NADIFA MOHAMED Half the lifeboats have already gone, they�re in the water. There�s only four lifeboats at this end of the ship and the others are hundreds of yards ahead. Seeing only four lifeboats available and nearly 2000 people trying to get into them, there is such panic in that crowd. PROF. SUZANNAH LPSCOMB Ideas about self-control and stoicism and self-sacrifice are celebrated as forms of gentlemanliness as well as manliness. These are the values that they�ve been told to hold to. And if it means putting yourself second, that is the ideal as far as Edwardian society is concerned. Bruce Ismay, who is the Managing Director of the White Star Line, his father had founded the White Star Line, and The Titanic is basically his idea, this is the crowning achievement of his career, the creation of this amazing opulent ship. And now he can see that it is all going to the bottom of the sea. PROF. SUZANNAH LPSCOMB I think the sense of responsibility for Bruce Ismay must have been huge, and we see this in the fact that he spends time patrolling the boat deck, putting people into boats, instructing crew how to behave but he knows that there aren�t enough lifeboats onboard, he knows by this point that there�s no rescue ship coming anytime soon. These lives are on his conscience. JEANNETTE WINTERSON It was the early hours of the morning, the lifeboats are being filled to the brim now, over-filled. Naturally some male passengers want to get in, they want to be with their loved ones and they just want to save their lives as any of us would. NADIFA MOHAMED Eugene�s testimony makes me like him. I think he�s honest, he�s frank, he�s not trying to put a spin on his own behaviour or anyone else�s. I get a feeling of a real historical account in its warts and all attitude. JEANNETTE WINTERSON What�s sad about this story is that most of those officers knew the people that they were turning away in the sense that they were from the same class, the same kind. ADMIRAL LORD WEST Captain Smith had severe doubts about whether a fully laden lifeboat could be lowered properly. He knew there were a lot of people waiting down at the gangway doors to get into boats and therefore he thought how can I manage to get these boats full, how can I save as many of the people whose lives I am responsible for as is possible? ADMIRAL LORD WEST So, Boxhall�s lifeboat that was only about 45% full was meant to go round to the starboard side of the ship to take on more passengers. ADMIRAL LORD WEST Boxhall should have made sure that he filled the lifeboat up and take necessary action to make sure he wasn�t swamped. He was in a position to do that and he didn�t. JEANNETTE WINTERSON So, the instinct to row away is very normal, very human. Everybody wants to get away from the scene of an accident or a disaster and this ship is huge. People never seen anything this big. Captain Smith is out there with his megaphone barking orders for the lifeboats to come back and pick up other passengers. ADMIRAL LORD WEST It�s almost instinctive and it�s driven into you from the day you join the Royal Navy or the Merchant Navy that you obey your captain and do as he says, he is god, in a sense, and therefore not to do as you�re told is a heinous crime. Quartermaster Hitchens who was in command of one of the lifeboats said, �It�s our lives now, not theirs.I find that quite extraordinary. The bottom line should be �I want to save as many as I can. JEANNETTE WINTERSON It's our lives now, not theirs. This is the moment of mutiny. This is when all order has broken down. We are not going to standby anymore and drown because you tell us to. Fair enough. JEANNETTE WINTERSON I suspect many people on the ship by now were in an altered state which, we know is what happens when people are facing death. Jack Phillips won�t leave his post. It is a clear, single focus on what he believed to be right. And he believes the right thing to do is to stay there until it�s all over. JEANNETTE WINTERSON Phillips is leading from the front. He�s a hero. It�s easier to understand fear and self-interest than it is to understand sacrifice and heroism, especially now in our world we think that everything is about greed and me first. That generation did not. PROF. SUZANNAH LPSCOMB Bruce Ismay decides to save himself. He is about the only man on board who can�t be ordered out of that spot by any of the remaining crew. PROF. SUZANNAH LPSCOMB I took no man�s place. This is palpably untrue but I think he must believe it. I think that Bruce Ismay comes from a class of society who believes that they have everything they have because of grit and character. I mean it�s like being a billionaire today in a world of hungry people. The only way you can live with yourself is to imagine that you deserve it in some way. And so, I think that Bruce Ismay believes contrary to all rational fact, that he hasn�t taken someone else�s place even though he really must know internally that he has. JEANNETTE WINTERSON The story of the officer shooting himself is contested. Even the name of the officer is in dispute. They were meant to help others, not shoot them, and you�re certainly not meant to shoot yourself when you make a mistake. PROF. SUZANNAH LPSCOMB It�s not a line of enquiry that is pursued, and I think that is because in Edwardian society there is such a taboo around death by suicide, it looks like the easy way out, it can hardly have been so. It suggests that the people who did it have failed that test of being an Edwardian man which is to demonstrate heroism and courage and stoicism in the face of disaster. JEANNETTE WINTERSON Death stares everyone in the face some will escape, some won�t. Jack Phillips, he�s young but he�s responsible, he�s self- reliant. He thinks he�s going to die, and so, he decides to die doing his best for everyone else. PROF. SUZANNAH LPSCOMB People find themselves facing this life or death moment together. NADIFA MOHAMED To die slowly within earshot of people who might save your life, there�s a particular cruelty to that. ADMIRAL LORD WEST Drawing weapons is very unusual. The officers are clearly all aware of how panic was setting in and order and discipline amongst people were falling apart.